John Turner (c1765) and Juda Hathcock and Lydia (---) of Marion Co, SC

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• 15-16 Dec 2009 - Reformatted old page. Several updates regarding spouses, children, etc.

I (Marty Grant) don't know how I'm related to John Turner, but I think he might be a distant uncle.

John Turner was born ca 1765 according to a statement he gave for a Revolutionary War Pension (# R10756). He said he was born on the Roanoke River in Martin Co., NC (then still part of Halifax County).

John Turner is a son of John and Patience Turner as proven by several court records dated 1840 wherein some of his children's ancestry was outlined as proof related to their race.

In his pension application he stated this about his service and life (broken up a little for legibility, the original was in one long paragraph), dated 13 Oct 1832:

On this the 13th of October 1832 personally appeared in open Court in the Court of Common Please John Turner a Resident of the District and State aforesaid aged sixty-seven years, who, being first duly sworn according to law doth upon his oath make the following declaration in order to obtain the benefit of the Act of Congress passed June 7th A.D. 1832. That he was born in Martin County North Carolina on the Roanoke River about the year 1765. He has no record of his age & as to this point speaks from recollection entirely. He was living in Marion District (at that time called a part of Craven County) when he was drafted & marched under Captain Thomas Warley to General Francis Marion's Camp at a place called Blufort on the South side of Santee River South Carolina went on from there to Watboo - thence to Leneud's [Lunds?] ferry on Santee River where Deponent with 11 others were stationed as a guard to prevent the Tories from joining the British then in Charleston. He was drafted for one month & when that time expired he returned to Marion. 2 months afterwards he rejoined Marion (General) at Watboo bridge - after staying there a few days, Marion sent 17 of his men to John's Island near Charleston as a guard to prevent the Negroes and others as far as they could from trading with the British. Stayed there 18 days & returned to General Marion at Watboo where he remained his time out. He then came home to Marion District & being drafted again was marching down to Watboo when the news reached his company that the British had left Charleston & the company was discharged & returned home.

The balance of his service was spent in pursuing the Tories on Little Pee Dee & in Robeson County. He was drafted for this purpose & supposes that he must have served 2 years. The character of his Service was this. The Tories were constantly making eruptions on the Country adjacent to the album: particularly the Districts of Marlborough & of Marion. This rendered it necessary to keep a constant lookout for them & to follow after them whenever they could be found. In this employment deponent was engaged irregularly sometimes a day at a time & the longest time 10 days - he tours of which he was drafted & served with Marion were the ease. The company in which he was, was divided into 3 parts: one third of them were in service from home for one month at a time & the other 2/3 remained at home to protect their houses from the incursions of the Tories so that, although he was but little more than 2 months abroad in General Marion's Camp, yet he was compelled to turn out when at home during the other 4 months making 6 months of service as above described in addition to the time spent in incursions during the 2 years above mentioned. Since the Revolutionary War he has lived one year near Camden South Carolina. He now lives in Marion District South Carolina where he has lived altogether since the War, except the one year above mentioned. He is known to Edward B. Wheeler, John Mace, Archibald Kerby, Ezekiel Daniel, Isham Watson, Dennis Berry & many other gentlemen of respectability who can testify as to his character for veracity & their belief of his Services as a Soldier of the Revolution He hereby relinquishes all claim whatever to any pension or annuity except the present & declares that his name is not on the Pension Roll of the Agency of any State.

John Turner signed with a mark.

He added an amendment on 18 Oct 1833:

State of South Carolina Marion District: Personally appeared in open Court John Turner who on oath makes the following affidavit as an amendment to his declaration for a pension viz. that in the year 1780 or 1781 - he cannot positively say which, he was drafted & served as a private one month under General Francis Marion & a Captain Chambers at Watboo & Leneud's Ferry on Santee River in the State aforesaid in the manner more particularly mentioned in his first declaration. That 2 months afterwards & under the same draft by General Marion which required and alternate service of the soldiers - this deponent again joined Marion's forces at Watboo & served under Captain Scott at Watboo & John's Island one month & 10 days & then returned home. That after he returned home he was drafted & held in readiness to pursue & 2 the Tories for 2 years & so serve frequently & upon various occasions under one Captain Joseph Hudson as stated in his first declaration & that he served in that way until the end of the War, & that he actually served in all from the year 1782 the close of the war 18 months. Sworn to in open Court the 18 day of October 1833.

(From Revolutionary War Pension File # R10756, original available from ProQuest through participating libraries. Also available from Footnote (requires subscription). A transcript is available on Southern Campaign Revolutionary War Pension Statements and Rosters.)

It is notable that his request for a pension was denied because he didn't serve the minimum six months required to get a pension.

At some point before 1790 John Turner married Juda Hathcock, probably in what is now Marion Co., SC but was then still part of Georgetown District.  Her name is given in the 1840 court records as his wife. I have no birth date for her, nor parents, but it seems likely she is a sister, or at somehow closely related to Barnabas Hathcock (1765/74) who married John Turner's sister Catherine. She may have been born in NC if the 1880 census entry for her son John Turner is accurate for he lists his mother's birth place as NC. However, he listed his father's as SC which is wrong.

There was no one of the Hathcock surname listed on the 1790 census in Georgetown District. There was an "M. Hathcock" in Claremont County, Camden District that year, the only person of that surname in the entire state. It is interesting that John said he lived in Camden awhile.  The next nearest one was a Benjamin Hathcock in Montgomery Co., NC.

There are two entries for "John Turner" on the 1790 census in Georgetown District, one in Prince Frederick Parish, and the other in Prince George. One is this John, the other is his father. I think John Jr. is the one in Prince Frederick for his family is small at this time. The 1790 census was alphabetical, so we can't determine who a person's neighbors were, nor where they lived exactly.

1790 census analysis (based on available evidence): (Explanation of this census)

1790 Georgetown Dist., SC, Prince Frederick Parish pg 507 John Turner 1-1-1-0-0

Analysis:

1 Male 16+	(bef 1774)	John Turner (c1765)

1 male 0-15	(1774/1790)	Son? (1774/90)

1 Female 	(bef 1790)	Juda Hathcock Turner (bef 1790) wife

0 Slaves

On 20 Sep 1793 John Turner Jr. purchased 195 acres of land from Benjamin and Anne Blackmon. The land was on the south side of Catfish creek. John Turner Jr. was referred to as a "Planter" in this deed. The land bordered property of John Sanders, Thomas Hulin, Hugh Giles, and Harrison Lucas. Witnesses were John Sanders and John Blackman. (Marion Co, SC Deed Book C page 260).

Marion District was formed in 1798 from Georgetown District, and it included portions of Prince Frederick and Prince George Parish (I don't know exactly where the parish boundary line ran). The Turner's were found in Marion District from then on. They lived in the region of Catfish Creek roughly between the modern towns of Latta and Sellers and the Temperance Hill community.

John Turner Jr. was listed on the 1800 census in Marion District, SC. He was listed as "Jr." this time, to distinguish himself from his father. After his father's death (ca 1804), the younger John no longer used the "Jr." designation, and after a number of years, he began to be called "Sr." himself, to be distinguished from a younger John Turner in the same area (his own son).

In 1800, John Turner Jr. was listed next door to his brother Reuben Turner and just two houses from his brother-in-law Barnabas Hathcock (married to Catherine Turner). All of these (and several of their other neighbors) were listed in the "Free Colored" columns of the census. Unfortunately, this column was lumped together, and was not broken down by age and sex, so all we can tell is their were 4 people in the household, and don't know how many were male and how many female.

1800 census analysis (based on available evidence): (Explanation of this census)

1800 Marion Dist., SC, Liberty County page 462-806 John Turner Junr 00000-00000-4-0

Analysis:

0 Whites

4 Free Colored Persons		1-John Turner (1765)

				2-Juda Hathcock Turner (bef 1790) wife

				3-Son? (1774/90)?

				4-Child? (1790/1800)

0 Slaves

John Turner is not listed on the 1810 census in Marion as far as I could find. There were two John Turners in neighboring Marlboro District, but neither are a good fit. Both are age 26-44 (born ca 1765/84) which fits. However, John said nothing about ever living in Marlboro when he made his pension application in 1832. Here are the listings in brief, just in case one of them is him:

p. 116-191 Jno Turner 30010-10010-0-0

p. 120-93A Jno Turner 20010-00100-0-0 (near Moses Turner same age as John)

John Turner was not listed on the 1811 Marion District tax list, so that may indicate he had moved away, if only temporarily. 

John Turner was listed on the 1814 tax list in Marion District and charged $1.57 1/2 for taxes.

Juda Hathcock Turner died sometime before 1820, presumably in Marion Dist., SC.

John Turner married Lydia (---) sometime before 1820 in Marion Dist., SC. She was born ca 1804/05 per her age on the 1860 census. I don't know her maiden name.

On 16 Dec 1819 John Turner and William Turner (his brother) sold 68 acres to John Bridges for $100. The land was described as being on the east side of Catfish  bounded east by lands transferred from John Powers to John Bridges. Lanes line was mentioned as was John Turners. William signed, but John made his mark. Witnesses were James G. Crawford and Nathaniel Murfee. (Marion Co, SC Deed Book I page 146).

John Turner was listed on the 1820 census in Marion District. His household was listed in the white columns, except for John himself who was listed as Free Colored. This census was alphabetical, so I can't tell where he lived or who his neighbors were.

1820 census analysis (based on available evidence): (Explanation of this census)

1820 Marion Dist., SC page 67 John Turner 020100-01100
FPC=0001-0000

Slaves=0000-0000

Analysis:

1 FC Male 45+   (bef 1775)	John Turner (1765)

1 male 16-25	(1794/1804)	Joseph Turner (c1803) son

2 males 10-15	(1804/1810)	1-John Turner (c1804/10) son

				2-Henry Turner (c1810) son
1 female 16-25	(1794/1804)	Lydia (---) Turner (c1804) wife

1 female 10-15	(1804/1810)	Daughter? (1804/10) --> gone by 1830

0 Slaves

John Turner (or his son John Jr.) was named in the Estate records of John Henry, merchant dated 20 Nov 1821, as being a debtor to the estate. (Marion Co, SC Inventory Book 1827-1836 pg 14 as published in the Pee Dee Queue)

John Turner was not listed on the 1824 Marion tax list.

On 16 Aug 1826 John Turner, planter, of Marion District sold 99 acres to Isham Watson for $150. The land was being part of two tracts, one granted to John Turner for 150 acres 6 Jun 1785 and the other granted to Benjamin Blackman for 991 acres 6 Feb 1792 and conveyed from Benjamin Blackman to John Turner and now from John Turner to Isham Watson. The land was on the west side of Catfish Swamp bounded on the north Robert Hussey and east by William Turner and the south by Wickham Watson and on he west by Sampson Faulk. Witnessed by Salathiel Moody and B. Moody. John Turner signed with a mark. His wife Liddy Turner relinquished her dower rights before B. Moody, Q.U. on 2 Sep 1826. She signed with a mark. (Marion Co., SC Deed Book O, page 242).

John Turner was listed in Marion for the 1830 census. Unfortunately this census was alphabetical, so we can't determine who his neighbors were, nor what neighborhood he may have lived in, though he was probably still in the Catfish Creek area.

1830 census analysis (based on available evidence): (Explanation of this census)

1830 Marion Dist., SC page 48 John Turner 1000000010000-2100100000000
Slaves=000000-000000

Analysis:

1 Male 60-69	(1760/1770)	John Turner (1765)

1 male 0-4	(1825/1830)	Son? (1825/30)

1 Female 20-29	(1800/1810)	Lydia (---) Turner (c1804) wife

1 female 5-9	(1820/1825)	Ann Turner (c1824) daughter

2 females 0-4	(1825/1830)	1-Daughter? (1825/30)

				2-Daughter? (1825/30)

0 Slaves

John Turner was listed on the 1840 census in Marion District, SC. He was listed as John "Sr" this time. This census was not alphabetical, so we can roughly determine where he lived. He was listed near several other Turner families, including his brother William Turner, just two houses away. They were still in the same area, apparently in the Moody Township area near Ebenezer Cemetery, west of Temperance Hill, between there and Catfish Creek or somewhere close to that area.

1840 census analysis (based on available evidence): (Explanation of this census)

1840 Marion Dist., SC pg 182 John Turner Sr. 2110000001000-0021010000000
Slaves=000000-000000

Analysis:

1 Male 70-79	(1760/1770)	John Turner (1765)

1 male 10-14	(1825/1830)	Son? (1825/30)

1 male 5-9	(1830/1835)	Son? (1830/35)

2 males 0-4	(1835/1840)	1-Son? (1835/40)

				2-Son? (1835/40)

1 Female 30-39	(1800/1810)	Lydia (---) Turner (c1804) wife

1 female 15-19	(1820/1825)	Ann Turner (c1824) daughter

2 females 10-14	(1825/1830)	1-Daughter? (1825/30)

				2-Daughter? (1825/30)

0 Slaves

John Turner apparently died  before 1850, as he wasn't listed on that census. I was unable to find his widow Lydia on that census. She was still around but not listed in 1850 for some reason.

Lydia was "back" in Marion for the 1860 census: Marion District, Gum Swamp PO, # 1280/1268 Lydia Turner 55 Farm Laborer SC; Ann 36 Farm Laborer; Joseph 12; Henry 9; Flora 6; Isaac 4; A. E. 2 female. Everyone was listed as "M" for Mulatto.

I was unable to find Lydia Turner on the 1870 census. She may have died before then.

Children of John Turner and Juda Hathcock and Lydia (---). John Turner and his wives had several children, according to the 1790 through 1840 census records. However, only a few of them are positively identified. There are numerous "unclaimed" Turner's that could easily belong to John Turner, but so far, I have insufficient evidence to place them here. Joseph, John and Henry are proven children as named in a series of court records in 1840. Ann (c1824) is most likely a daughter for she was living with Lydia in 1860 along with her own children. That leaves many still unidentified in this family.

1. Unknown Son (1774/90)

2. Unknown Child (1790/1800)

3. Joseph Turner (c1803)

4. John Turner (c1805)

5. Henry Turner (c1811)

6. Unknown Daughter (1804/10)

7. Ann Turner (c1824)

8. Unknown Son (1825/30)

9. Unknown Daughter (1825/30)

10. Unknown Daughter (1825/30)

11. Unknown Son (1830/35)

12. Unknown Son (1835/40)

13. Unknown Son (1835/40)

Unknown Son (1774/90). John Turner had an apparent son this age. He was with him for the 1790 census (age under 16, born ca 1774/90), and probably with him in 1800, though in that year, the family was listed in the "Free Colored" columns, and not sorted out by age and sex. Since John wasn't found in 1810 we can't tell when this son left home. He was not with John by the time of the 1820 census.

There is a Martin Turner born ca 1789/90 who left Marion District before 1830 and moved to Izard Co, AR. This could easily be him.

Unknown Child (1790/1800). John Turner had an apparent child this age. This child was with John Turner for the 1800 census, though in that year, the family was listed in the "Free Colored" columns, and not sorted out by age and sex. I don't know whether this child is male or female. Since the child was not with him back in 1790, I can only assume they were born ca 1790/1800.

Since John wasn't found in 1810 I can't tell when this child left home. He doesn't seem to be home in 1820.

There is a James Turner born ca 1795/96, who with his brother Martin Turner born ca 1789/90, left Marion District before 1830 and moved to Izard Co, AR. This could easily be him.

There is at least one other Turner born the 1790's who might belong here instead: my ancestor Daniel Turner (c1795/96).

Joseph Turner was born ca 1803/04 in Marion Dist., SC. He is a proven child of John as named in an 1840 court record:

21 Mar 1840 Marion Dist., SC Judgment Roll # 4347 Joseph Turner vs. the State. John Turner and Juda Hathcock are parents of Joseph Turner. Penny Turner married John Martin, parents of Sarah Martin (more).

Lucille Utley, Selected Marion County Judgment Rolls 1803-1859. 2005.

Joseph seems to be home with his parents for the 1820 census aged 16-25 (born ca 1794/1804), but gone after that. He did marry in the 1820's to Elizabeth (---). See their page for more information.

John Turner was born ca 1804/05 in Marion District. He is a proven child of John as named in an 1840 court record:

21 Mar 1840 Marion Dist., SC Judgment Roll # 4346. The State vs. John Turner. "We find that the relator John Turner is a free mulatto." (from jury). Patience Turner mother of John Turner who married Juda Hatchcock, a free white woman, parents of your petitioner John Turner. My father was a soldier in the American Revolution under General Marion. Patience Turner left a daughter named Patience Turner (sic) who married John Martin, they are parents of Sarah Martin ...

Lucille Utley, Selected Marion County Judgment Rolls 1803-1859. 2005.

John seems to be with his parents in 1820 (age 10-15, born ca 1804/10), and gone by 1830. He married Ruth (---) before ca 1833. See his own page for additional information.

Henry Turner was born ca 1810/11 in Marion Dist., SC. He is a proven child of John as named in an 1840 court record:

21 Mar 1840 Henry Turner ads. The State He further sheweth that his Great grand mother was a free white woman by the name of Rachael Smith who resided in North Carolina, That the said Rachael Smith died leaving a female child named Patience Turner so named & reputed in the county & vicinity of the said Rachael Smith. That sometime about the American Revolutionary War the said Patience Turner removed to Marion District, South Carolina. That the said Patience Turner has since died leaving John Turner who intermarried with Lula Hatchcock a free white woman and who are the father & mother of your petitioner Henry Turner.

And your petitioner Henry Turner further sheweth and suggests unto your Honors that his father John Turner was a soldier in the war of the American Revolution under Genl. Marion….

Shared by John Andrews, from Lucille Utley, Selected Marion County Judgment Rolls 1803-1859. 2005.

Henry seems to be with his parents in 1820 (age 10-15, born ca 1804/10), and gone by 1830. He married Margaret (---) in the 1820's. See their page for more information.

Unknown Daughter (1804/10). John Turner had an apparent daughter this age. I don't have John's 1810 census entry yet, but this child was home with him in 1820 (age 10-15, born ca 1804/10), and gone by 1830, so probably married or dead by then.

I don't know who this child was.

Ann Turner was born ca 1823/24 in Marion Dist., SC. She appears to be with her parents for the 1830 census aged 5-9 (ca 1820/25) and still home in 1840 aged 15-19 (ca 1820/25). I was unable to find Ann on the 1850 census, nor her mother.

In 1860 Ann was living with her mother in Marion District and had several children listed. It isn't clear if they are hers or not, but at a glance it would seem so. If they are hers, then she was a single mother or else married to a Mr. Turner who died before 1860:

Marion District, Gum Swamp PO, # 1280/1268 Lydia Turner 55 Farm Laborer SC; Ann 36 Farm Laborer; Joseph 12; Henry 9; Flora 6; Isaac 4; A. E. 2 female. Everyone was listed as "M" for Mulatto.

I was unable to find Ann or any of her children on the 1870 census. I don't know what became of them.

Unknown Son (1825/30). John Turner had an apparent son this age. This child was home with John in 1830 (age "under 5", born ca 1825/30), and still home in 1840 (age 10-14, born ca 1825/30).

This could be Joel Turner (c1824/25) or Robert Turner (c1824/25) or James Turner (c1827/28), all of whom fit age-wise.

Unknown Daughter (1825/30). John Turner had an apparent daughter this age. This child was home with John in 1830 (age "under 5", born ca 1825/30), and still home in 1840 (age 10-14, born ca 1825/30).

I don't know who this daughter was.

Unknown Daughter (1825/30). John Turner had an apparent daughter this age. This child was home with John in 1830 (age "under 5", born ca 1825/30), and still home in 1840 (age 10-14, born ca 1825/30).

I don't know who this daughter was.

Unknown Son (1830/35). John Turner had an apparent son this age. This child was home with John in 1840 (age 5-9, born ca 1830/35).

This could be Robert Turner (c1831/32) who fits age-wise.

Unknown Son (1835/40). John Turner had an apparent son this age. This child was home with John in 1840 (age "under 5", born ca 1835/40).

This could be Solomon Turner (c1838/39) who fits age-wise.

Unknown Son (1835/40). John Turner had an apparent son this age. This child was home with John in 1840 (age "under 5", born ca 1835/40).

• Marty Grant, relationship unknown, but very interested in this entire family.
• See page for parents John Turner and Patience Smith.